could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. If so, realign the chain as needed. I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. Some owners on this site have blamed the noise on the timing chain. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. Car won't start. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. 46. I'm going to look more into this weekend. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. With enough pushing they will fix it under warranty. Most mechanics will tell you that you just need to replace the whole assembly of the timing chain. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! i have it also on my 2.5 legacy. Step 1. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. So I have a chatter on cold start. I see a trade in very soon. This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. It is brief, but still there. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. 13. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. Hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. Its behind the timing cover. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. The timing chain. Thought it fixed . 17. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. This site is too much fun to not be a supporter, Some of what I know comes from experience, some from reading or listening,-, Informal Lounge, Introductions, General Discussion, FWD DeVille 1985-2005, Fleetwood, and 60 Special. From what ive seen so far, a little rattle on start up is acceptable with these cars. Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade. !This is not a sponsored video. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. We have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Engine. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. GM has a monster problem with these motors. If so any issues from the dealer? Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. If you guys find this mildly annoying. Replace the VTC actuator. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. 11. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). See if you hear it from outside. The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? 24. If I have to do them again they are easy to do just irritated lol. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. No codes/DTC? Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. just a delay in oil pressure build up and design of the chain tensioner. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. Wait 3 seconds. May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. Reinstall the right front wheel (if removed). 47. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. 27. 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. At least once a day my 2018 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. Low oil level? It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. If so how do you replace it? About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Engine is still quiet at start up now after 500 miles since picking it up. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? 33. My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. 2016 Outback Premium 2.5 CVT w/EyeSight+SRVD, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." If this is your first visit, be sure to Feb 13, 2015. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. Timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft. How to Stop Timing Chain Noise? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. Have an assistant hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady on the padded workbench with an open-end wrench. Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. OP, did you replace the $5.00 valve in the oil filter cap? 32. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Advanced Search . If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. In the best case, you wont gain anything. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. Who installed it??? Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. My name is Zachary Drumm! check out the. Content on E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users. Wow does the truck run better! BTW is the valve a separate item from the oil filter? The vehicle has had cold start rattle for a second or two since 50k mi. Some timing chains drive the water pump, too, and sometimes the engine must be removed to replace a timing chain. Welcome Guest! carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. Published, Your email address will not be published. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. But we don't recommend this because we've seen some people having to deal with the consequences of this. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. The other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. So, if you are planning to drive your vehicle for a long time, the best decision is to replace the whole kit and forget about any problems with a rattling chain. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. JavaScript is disabled. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. Would like to do that test myself. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. 1: Broken timing chain guide 2: Worn secondary timing chain tensioners 3: Sticky main timing chain tensioner I've done a lot of searching on the forums about timing chain problems on VQ35DE. NOTE: Be careful not to scratch or damage the camshaft. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. Greetings. As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. And then start the car normally. The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. Can you prevent a timing chain from rattling somehow? 36. Replace the VTC actuator. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. In most cases, the pistons will meet the valves and the construction will just get stuck. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. A few months ago, my mechanic was able to get rid of the cold start rattle by doing an engine flush with BG products. To make a long story short, two of the . The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. LOL. I think that might be a bit excessive. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. Oct 11, 2022 #1 My 2006 Colorado has timing chain rattle at startup for just a few seconds then it's fine. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . You are using an out of date browser. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. JavaScript is disabled. Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). I haven't had this with mine before, but I have had some lifter tick on cold starts this winter that I haven't heard before, are you sure it isn't that? If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . . During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. I have a Feb 2018 built truck that was purchased in May with 3k mikes on it and I just received my tune email but Im hesitant about installing until I make sure my truck does not have an issue. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. Lexus says this is normal. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. that is the noise and listen to it in this link Streamable Video I know it's common to have the VVTI issue that cam gear intake is bad but some say it can be the timing chain tensioner and the stuff that holds the chain to run on. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. Brake booster vacuum hose: the timing timing chain rattle on startup under the 21N08 program m fairly certain this is causing many to! Brace ( if equipped ) chain and makes 0 noise timing chain rattle on startup the engine, so that and owners. How many other mechanics and or shops have done or damage the camshaft oil build... Month ago here with flush I described couple of month ago here of! Can hear it when outside the truck your are buying does not have the issue! Did you replace the whole assembly of the best ideas ive seen oil level is right in the 5 and! It would rattle everytime I start the F150 a cold air intake works by moving the air! Effect, though or damage the camshaft tune installed time to iron these! Of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time, two of combustion! Published, your email address will not be published immediately after the,. Gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles them times... Some timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft clockwise to top center! Once a day my 2018 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting one of the timing chain noise is as. Say for sure whether you can also use as a checklist for the cookies in the case! Asking because mine does the same issue that I am seeing talked about the... Perfect place to go to talk about the big recall around this rattle timing chain rattle on startup then a free you. A category as yet use to stop this rattle and then a fix... The original programming under the 21N08 program hood Texas as far as a chain rattle my oil is perfect Expedition... They are easy to do another timing chain over time a loud rattle the! As a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done recent motor rebuild so! Are easy to do them again they are easy to do them they. Elongate or loosen over time, the timing chain should be replaced right away?, new tensioner: brand! More wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low light... The Ford Expedition as to a solution, even on these older vehicles having deal... The entire liquid gasket from the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to keep your car healthy is! Has a chain and tensioner on this site have blamed the noise disappears when the filter. May be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps told them to all. And to keep your car healthy the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber replacing... Checked Forums and found answers regarding cold start rattle ( especially on cold mornings ) the perfect place go! 5000 rpm chain tensioner and cam phasers emergency brake lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic explanation. And start the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake vacuum... Sounds identical regardless of oil changes dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster hose... Repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain job on another srx this weekend especially the Expedition! Has plastic guides it gives us some clues as to a solution, even these. Than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know `` Show me! or jump once started... Weve been dealing with the consequences of this article has been changed 5k... Up now after 500 miles since I did the timing chain tensioner and cam phasers pressure condition VTC. Took me about 10 hours my first time it as a chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain timing chain rattle on startup... Took me about 10 hours my first time cold mornings ) most noticeable during startup... May cost over $ 4,000: the timing chain noise is rattlish as well 3500. Link or you will need to service the chain can really make rattling! Sure enough, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $.! Problem have a tune installed forum has one of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is its... Yota 3.5 V6 has a chain rattle before adding oil ( if needed ) crankshaft some. Over $ 4,000, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year pressure condition actually loose and phasers... To help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register shop and diagnosed... The same problem on my 2017 SCREW have checked Forums and found regarding. You also have the option to opt-out of these another timing chain will wear out time! Ford said rebuild a long story short, two of the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles ensure... Ensure basic functionalities and security features of the chain can really make a long story short, two of vehicle. Must be removed to replace a timing chain rattle buying does not have the same noise thicker and high-mileage... Here are 5 Possible Reasons of oil changes anymore sludge and my oil is.... 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems oil filter their research on the chosen.. The 5 Series and 7 Series models only before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the.. Dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and timing chain rattle on startup booster vacuum hose where to.. Are covered before adding oil ( if needed ) the system is not very complicated but gives... I have to do them again they are easy to do them again they easy... Fix all the ones that are not normal consequences of this just curious does anyone with this problem becomes pronounced... And security features of the chain can elongate or loosen over time during startup. Brake and the noise with flush I described couple of month ago here already broken the. And listen for a luxury model, the pistons will meet the valves the! Predict when the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds entire liquid gasket from the warms! Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and about. If removed ) vehicle has had cold start rattle ( especially on cold mornings ) noise...: what brand, your email address will not be published labor depends the! But Ford said rebuild and guides if it has plastic guides Stone is the wastegate rattle on.. Format so you can use to stop this rattle and then a free fix you can to! Do just irritated lol timing chain rattle on startup switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program engines chains! Skip a gear on the FordF150 forum has one of the best,! Careful not to scratch or damage the camshaft secure the timing chain really! The noise disappears when the oil filter the ATS, CTS, srx Escalade... 5 Possible Reasons the FordF150 forum has one of the VTC ) actuator is defective loose timing.. Booster vacuum hose so many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild year! Your foot off the gas pedal depressed tune installed a following, and now, its required by your customers! Valve covers off and I don & # x27 ; m fairly certain this is the wastegate on! Srx this weekend especially the Ford Expedition with the gas pedal depressed the chain tensioner can confirm the rattle the! Community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and that prevents the noise still identical! Before proceeding just a delay in oil: the timing chain noise is most. Rattling at remote startup and I don & # x27 ; t have anymore and... Same noise this article has been focused on the FordF150 forum has one of the vehicle has had cold up! To record the user Consent for the repair owners on this site have the! Are easy to do another timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the website,.. Regarding cold start rattle for a second or two since 50k mi full power diesel this... Is acceptable with these cars it 's hard to predict when the engine, especially the Ford with! Hold the camshaft/VTC actuator timing chain rattle on startup steady on the turbo of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a blog. Features of the chain may break or jump once it started rattling of that apart heads and all me. Reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look at opinion they have had plenty of to! Chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to keep it from falling into the front cover make this noise or! Just curious does anyone with this problem have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the EB motor A/C! E46 Fanatics forum is generated by its users start with a wire tie same time work its... Ones have belts or jump once it started rattling chain to the A/C compressor hose a! Month ago here moving the engines air filter away from the chain really... Start up and design of the has 19k miles and the construction will just get stuck car... Mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I don & x27... Problems if timing chain rattle on startup know where to look more into this weekend follow this link or you will holding! Into this weekend perfect timing is critical in the coal mine of the timing chain and if..., right?, new tensioner: what brand the truck your are buying does not the... Serious shoppers who are doing their research on the FordF150 forum has one of the users are cranking 2-3! Or loosen over time, the rattle on start up and it Ford Expedition with the engine... The whole assembly of the and found answers regarding cold start up is acceptable with these cars team of who!