There's also administrative costs that are built in. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I can't be having heart problems. Is that a fair message? The really astonishing part about the fact that we spend more is we have worse health outcomes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all know there's things we can do and they make us feel good and we like to do them, but we're going to feel really bad if our doors close. That we really have historically the low growth over the last three years, actually about the rate of our economy which is actually pretty historically low. To see if lifestyle changes can affect your (INAUDIBLE) even telomeres. This is just an unbelievable amount of stents and cardiac caths. NISSEN: Now, the leading cause of death in diabetes is heart disease. It only reduces symptoms. And how do we shift this huge enterprise of disease intervention in that direction. We need primary care doctors. All right? WENDELL POTTER, FORMER HEAD OF COMMUNICATIONS, CIGNA: I don't recall any time telling a lie, but I know that there are many times that I didn't disclose full information, and I was the company's chief spokesman. Underrewarded primary care. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got my blood sugar under control. In the United States, it was around $8,000 annually. He overdosed. ORNISH: We found that after a year, the men who made these intensive lifestyle changes, their physical heart disease improved. That's built in these costs as well. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bye. I need to speak with the crisis worker. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was, what, a month and a half ago? In our model, the physician acts as a quarterback. BROWNLEE: Fee for service rewards physicians for doing more. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to see what they've given him. Ten allotted. You just never get to the bottom of what's causing al he these problems they're having. ERIC WARD, SAFEWAY EMPLOYEE: At my heaviest, I was over 200 pounds. Fire Escape. I stopped taking my medicine months ago. I haven't exercised. I'm not changed, but I'm changing. Trying to get Medicare to cover a heart disease program has been by far the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. But so what, right? It is the largest health insurance company in the country. KATY KASCH, HEAD NURSE, AIR MOBILITY COMMAND: Yes. They become more productive. And you know, our grandparents did not eat stuff like this. ROBIN ROBERTS, ABC NEWS: Now to a new study that shows diet may be a key tool in the fight against cancer. (LAUGHTER) NIEMTZOW: Hi. She needs a follow-up within three month with an echo. What is really striking is how little they have written the last few years. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me get that jacket away from him. It's the same challenge. It's And we will say, it is important you request the appointment not only through a telephone call, but if you have an e- mail address, to try to do that. We're not talking about a handful of people here. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Some would say overrewarded specialty and subspecialties. SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: Safeway Corporation, they've actually been able to bend the cost curve. BROWNLEE: If I think about what healthcare could be like, it would have a lot more care in it. GUPTA: How big a problem is this then? And welcome home. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Viewers will see this language when they . What does it look like over the next few years? OK. YATES: I've chose to get off all narcotics, all medicine, everything. You didn't think you could take care of patients and get reimbursed enough to do the work you need to do. That was the message that, you know, I think was the you got from that documentary. It doesn't reward them for doing a better job. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine months? We need a whole new kind of medicine. And that is why, our first priority has to be to equalize that access and then move on. WENDELL POTTER, FORMER HEAD OF COMMUNICATIONS, CIGNA: Insurance companies have always been able to regulate the rates they charge. So, if you have a patient comes in, you get paid a certain amount because you do a stent. Thanks for watching. ROSS: What's the regular food? Psychologically, you deal with a lot of these sorts of things. Alice in Wonderland (1951)/Transcript. And yet the outcomes, the survival rates are at the highest levels. I think many of her cardiac catheterizations instead would not have been necessary. So we took the men with prostate cancer. Little did I know that it was followed by years of the same thing over and over and over again. BERWICK: It's really easy to find articles or speeches 30 years ago in which leaders were calling for change, unsustainable costs, problems and outcomes in quality. Let me take a listen to you. MARTIN: It was a dire situation and there are many times that myself and my colleagues would have the conversation of, you know, we are going to miss something, this could be really bad, and actually having the fear that this was going to be harmful to our patients at some point. Yvonne came to se me when she was sort of at her wit's end. It was a passion for healing. We need a whole new kind of medicine. We spend one heck of a lot of money. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd do it if I had to. I was in the hospital for two weeks. Most insurance companies will follow Medicare's lead, so I realize that Medicare is the Rosetta stone. MARSHALL: Yes, sir. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In the last few years, a profound change has begun in American medicine. If you select our human service, your transcript will be ready within 24 hours. We're dealing with the health of the nation. So, you compare us to those other nations, you have to understand that we come to the table with the bigger burden of disease. It's completely changed food. GUPTA: The vast majority of the viewers watching tonight probably say, look, what does this mean for me most directly. In Latin, it means, above all, do no harm. Now that Medicare is going to cover the heart disease program, the next step will be type 2 diabetes. Do you understand? GUPTA: And I want to leave all of you at home with a thought as well. We're spending almost twice as much in America as any other country on earth. Wag Dodge survived, nearly unharmed, in his escape fire. GUPTA: I think, what Doctor Nissen is describing us, a fee for the service, sort of model. May everyone be happy. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to do a pill count with me? This is going to caused about %800 dollars. The answers among us, and only by accepting the fact that the American healthcare system is badly broken and the status quo isn't working, is bankrupting our nation, will we be able to seek out the escape fires, the potential solutions, and create a sustainable and patient centered system for the future. BROWNLEE: Almost every study says that the doctor that has the greatest impact on your health, in general, the greatest impact on the health of a population is primary care doctors. MARTIN: How are you today? The fire broke out around 10 p.m. Monday at the Cozumel Apartments in the 6400 block of Sierra Blanca Drive near Westpark Tollway and Highway 6. Escape Fire Background.The video essay Escape Fire (2012) was heralded as a breakthrough in the understanding of and . Also remember this. ROSS: What do you think about that? It's generating rivers of money that are flowing into very few pockets. And that is where the affordable care act can help which is bringing more competition to the bidding and pricing of these items. What do you think of that? As a society, we have to make it easier and more affordable for people to make better lifestyle choices than worse ones. They sent me home with them. We do nothing about supporting the good, that the body can and wants to be healthy. "Escape Fire" airs March 10 on CNN. Physical Desc: It was important to keep expressing the hospital's position. It was like something that I could never have imagined I'd ever see in this country. 'Deinfluencing' is now a thing. It's not true in the United Kingdom. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Mr. Fields. Published: Santa Monica, Calif. : Lionsgate, [2013]. 01:26 - Source: CNN Stories worth watching 15 videos 'Escape Fire': How to fix health care 01:26 Forget influencers. And is it still traveling into your neck? The emergency department is the safety net of health care. It's not visible, but it's there. YATES: I was on Parazasin just for nightmares. A flower for you. You say there's a lot of Yvonnes (ph) out there, the patient we just met. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Mommy, what are you going to do? Alvin and the Chipmunks/Transcript. She ended up having another open heart operation, another bypass operation. MARTIN: What I do every day, buddy. Rescue care is second to none. There are lots of people like that, like I said, less than 30 percent of the people that end up with a stent are basically in that category. Okay. And the owners of those pockets do not want anything to fundamentally change. Those are the kind of things that would actually have an impact. They are often poor patients, but not always. CHO: If I spent five minutes with you and put in one of these stents, probably get paid $1,500. CHO: Oh, my God. We're glad to have you home. Our automatic transcription software will convert your video to text in just a few minutes (depending on the length of your video). And that was the first study showing that heart disease was reversible. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. MARTIN: So we need the crisis counselor, then. Transcripts; License . That is chest pain that is actually currently damaging the heart in patients. These are techniques that should be used to relieve symptoms. Our healthcare premium starts here, and if you have a body mass index less than 30, you get a discount. TUCKSON: I don't think it's important or useful to get distracted about who makes -- everybody needs to be able to deliver value. Hold my beer while I shoot this gator, you know? We want that. DAN BULLIS, WALTER REED ARMY MEDICAL CENTER, DEPLOYMENT HEALTH CENTER: Post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, is an individual's reaction to the exposure and experiences of war. And you say that you can help negotiate the price of these bills down, what do you tell people? STEVE BURD, CEO, SAFEWAY: In 2005 we had a billion-dollar health care bill rising at the rate of $100 million a year. It just doesn't work out financially. YATES: I was in the worst place in Afghanistan. MARTIN: I bill $213, let's say for a 45 minute face to face visit with a patient. Driven by these perverse economic incentives, we are doing a lot of procedures to people that they don't need. And so, I think it points to the violence in our society. WEIL: It could get worse. Don't need you, don't need you. All Dogs Go to Heaven 2/Transcript. WEIL: Where are you from? So here I am going in and out of the hospital to find out what's going on. They also tell us, they do hike up prices so patients with good insurance can help pay extra to help compensate for those payers who pay less or uninsured all together, perhaps. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the executive level, what's most important is hitting Wall Street's expectations, and they have to. And they have a hard time believing that these simple choices that we make in our lives each day can make such a powerful difference. It was with a huge amount of skepticism and resistance. It doesn't reward them for keeping their patients healthy. They have a blockage that's not causing symptoms and yet they're actually having a procedure. Anybody else would laugh, you know? Play the video for which you need a transcript and click on the three horizontal dots below the video. DR. ANDREW WEIL, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND PUBLIC HEALTH, UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA: Hippocrates said let food be your medicine and medicine be your food. They'll say, it took years to develop something like this, the research and development costs are significant. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's pretty good. MARTIN: Good. It is just tragic to think of the answer being there but just in the -- in the moment not able to see it. It's very hard for us as nurses to treat for pain because there's no thermometer we can stick in and say oh, it's seven out of 10 pain. It has to do with the training of physicians. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was OK. Kind of gave me more idea on what to eat. NISSEN: Yes, but we have to educate patients. It really does. WGRZ reported that crews encountered heavy fire and thick smoke coming from the building at 747 Main St., after they got the call at 10:08 a.m. A Mayday was called early in the operation. Unless you're in the middle of having a heart attack, which 95 percent of people who get them are not, they don't prolong your life, they don't even prevent heart attacks. When you start to look at kids 15 to 19, we know accidents and again violence. Look at the thinness. MEL LEFER, PETALUMA, CALIFORNIA: 25 years ago I had five restaurants in San Francisco. You know, without the use of fancy technology and expensive pharmaceutical medications. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that's why you don't want him to fall again. You almost forget that what you're doing is providing health insurance. Got to push through it. When you reward physicians for doing procedures instead of talking to patients, that's what they are going to do, is do procedures. Look at this. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. Aladdin and the King of Thieves/Transcript. If someone had talked to her, I think someone had really teased down her chest pain and her shortness of breath. Simply the same way the hospitals and physicians. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The army says this is all linked to the rising number of soldier suicides. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that had to be something to do with my diabetes. And doctors wanting to please their patients will often prescribe it. Co-directed by Matthew Heineman and Academy Award-nominee Susan Froemke (Lalee's Kin: The Legacy of Cotton), Escape Fire looks at a U.S. healthcare system designed to profit on disease not. If you talk to the employees around here that have lost 35, 50, 60, 100 pounds, they will tell you without a doubt they have a better quality of life. And it will not protect you from having a heart attack. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. For me to spend 45 minutes on an established visit with a patient to make sure they are doing their exercise, make sure their diabetes is going okay, and to try to figure out what their true problem is, probably get paid $15. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The Safeway supermarket chain looked for a way to rein in spiraling premiums and hit in what seems to be a win-win solution. From a patient perspective, from a physician perspective, you want to make sure obviously, that people are being educated correctly. The next group of people are people that have tried medical therapy, that are on medical therapy and failing. But, that's not the whole story. About a 30 percent increase in the risk of heart attack and related complications. And it's treated with things like angioplasty and stems and bypass surgery, and yet what does he have (INAUDIBLE)? It sounded like it was so bad that you basically had to leave your practice. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have pain, but it's more of an annoyance than it is pain. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you have, you know, a lot of money at stake here? MARTIN: I think what the American people need is, they need good health care. ROBIN CARNES, WALTER REED ARMY MEDICAL ENTER MEDITATION INSTRUCTOR: The first thing I'd like to do is teach you a breathing exercise with a targeted effect on post-traumatic stress. The kinds of interventions that we have come to favor in this country are inherently costly because they are dependent on expensive technology, and that includes pharmaceutical drugs. There are answers, we know what safe care looks like. I think that's an important point. And I knew what I was doing for a living was making it necessary for those folks to stand in line to wait for care in animal stalls and barns. BERWICK: If you need real serious technology today, like a very complex cardiac surgery, you're lucky to be in this country. BURD: Thirty percent of our smokers have quit, 21 percent of our obese population are no longer obese, and Safeway employees will be less of a burden on the Medicare of the future because they have adopted to this culture of health and fitness. Sometimes when you go, go to bad places in your head. BROWNLEE: We spend a spectacular amount of money on healthcare. When you're in the inner circle of the health insurance company, what's most important is meeting Wall Street's expectations. It got fast tracked by the FDA. (CROSSTALK) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overmedicating is a huge problem in society and the military is no exception. DR. SANJAY GUPTA,. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like I'm warming up a little bit. It's not true in France and Germany. Can adding Avandia help you? NARRATOR: The Great Fire of London destroyed three-fifths of the entire metropolitan area. BROWNLEE: The doctor that has the greatest impact on your health is primary care doctors. You're your options might be, if there is a doctor surgeon on hometown. Jonathan Gruber, he is an economist in MIT who helped design Governor Romney's health care law in Massachusetts, also helped design Obama care. I was a bit surprised. YATES: That's every single signature that says that you're good to go to get out of Walter Reed and move on with my travel right there. Maintaining my pain. So to make up that difference in the reimbursement rates decreasing we're changing the shorter appointments next week. OSBORNE: I am great. DR. PAMELA ROSS, EMERGENCY MEDICINE, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA: I'm from Virginia. A different perspective that there's a different way of doing things, that it's possible. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. DR. VALERIE MONTGOMERY RICE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, DEAN, MOREHOUSE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: I think it comes down to three things. Jonas, Wayne B., commentator. U.S. caregivers are told you've got to keep me pain free, you're going to do that. We know it's there. Everybody agrees on that. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take them away from him. The independent safety officials at the FDA estimates somewhere between 50,000 and 200,000 deaths or heart attacks due to the drug. I was taking 64 pills a day of combinations of Roxaset and Oxycotin. DR. ERIN MARTIN, PRIMARY CARE: I got to go to work. This -- medications I was on. It just wants you to keep coming back for your care of your chronic disease. Her cholesterol was never well controlled, and her high blood pressure was never well controlled. Stay tuned because afterwards, we're going to have a very important discussion regarding what we can all do to live longer and healthier lives and maybe avoid unnecessary costs and procedures. We're fighting everything for that not to happen, but it's because there isn't the funding going into primary care. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- MARTIN: What were you trying to do? How are you? A stapler, this stapler that is often to used in surgery, like this? You have to play this game with what does this patient need and how much time am I willing to spend with them, because the administration is telling you you need to see more patients, we're in the red. And that's because our system reimburses people for doing tasks and doing procedures, not for necessarily making people healthier. Good. MARTIN: Thyroid is a little bit big. Did you have a good day today? The answer is among us. They told no one. So I said, if you follow them very carefully and you treat them at the first sign of progression. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We moved you over here. I mean, give me a break. Because they're not using health care now. detail. The small wire cage you see there is the actual step. NISSEN: We do have a problem in America, and that is we have misaligned incentives. He said, it was a year. I took care of them and I was responsible for them and just worrying about if somebody else is going to do for them what they need. Just do something. MARTIN: I'm going to make a phone call and try and get some wheels in motion so that we can get you the help that you need. One of the ways to think about saving money in health care is to focus our energies on that 20 percent of patients and think about treating those people in a more effective way. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to open up some chi, that's a good way to think of it. An Entrenched System. That was how many medications I was on. The fire raged past Wag Dodge and overtook the crew, killing thirteen men and burning 3,200 acres. PROTESTERS: Now. I have an acutely suicidal patient in my office that I need help with. Your harm's heavy, your leg's heavy. What the Dartmouth group discovered is that the patients in the most costly regions where Medicare spent more money on patients, those patients did not have better health outcomes. PROTESTERS: Healthcare. WARD: I was chronically coming down with colds, and I knew that there was a history of cancer in my family, diabetes, heart disease. It expands the artery to hold it open and allow the blood to flow. GUPTA: Erin, do you want to respond to that? So I went into the hospital and they told me I had had a heart attack. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just take a couple of minutes to kind of arrive. And by the way, they are number in the world and life expectancy. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't say how much they gave him. Job number two was to make sure that there was not a public option. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People often think it has to be a new drug or a new laser or something really high-tech and expensive for it to be powerful. SGT. that is going to raise cause. I say, radical? And my doctor told him he wouldn't recommend taking me because he didn't think I would live the year. CARNES: We'll end the practice today with the completing statements. A lot of that comes you spoke - we spoke about are driven by people who don't have access to the system. MARTIN: OK? The problem with Yvonne's case, is she had all of those stents before she had the risk factors controlled. And people do. It was a great life. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you, too! MARTIN: What's hot was that commercials on television, why do we need to wait, we can just take a pill right now. And that worked for awhile. What do you say when someone calls you? You know, your lifestyle choices, as we all talk about it, hold incredible power over health. It's here, right in the center of your chest. We just have to do it differently. She had bypass surgery in her 30, 27 cardiac cauterization and well over seven stents before she went to the Cleveland clinic for treatment. (END VIDEO CLIP) GUPTA: In fact to build on that, if you talk to some of the executives of these hospitals, they will say for every dollar that is actually billed they may collect just pennies. MARTIN: Bye. All Dogs Go to Heaven/Transcript. For example, in 2007, the average Medicare recipient in Miami tallied more than $15,000 in health care bills, whereas a recipient in Minneapolis only cost the government about half that amount. If we can prevent that and even reverse it, that's how we're going to make true health care, not just sick care available. That Medicare bidding demonstration. How to Get YouTube Transcripts on Desktop On a desktop or laptop, head on over to YouTube.com in a web browser such as Google Chrome and open a video to watch. I mean, they are going to watch that and think, that's ridiculous. The study was conducted by Dr. Dean Ornish, who looked at patients with early stage prostate cancer. You know? ROSS: How long ago was that? Seventy percent of all the deaths in diabetes are heart disease. GUPTA: You feel better when you're healthier too. They either couldn't afford it, or they worked for small employers that had been purged by big insurance companies. ESCAPE FIRE tackles one of the most pressing issues of our time: what can be done to save our broken medical system? Heart cath, get another stent. We have to basically treat the patient for whatever they say, and a lot of times patients become so drowsy that they're not aware of how much they're taking. There's nothing else I can do. So I decided to leave. ROBERTSON: Conventional wisdom is, over the next two years, we will likely go out of business. Firefighters said they received about 12 calls . The fire overtook the crew, killing 13 men and burning 3,200 acres. And you're here today with chest pain. People talk about two-minute doctors. We're in Mann Gulch. And for the large majority of people we help, they often don't understand what many of the charges are. It was -- with a huge amount of skepticism and resistance. That doctor in Cleveland who stents do little to prevent heart attacks and in many cases doctors put them in to make more money. I can't be having heart problems. But, one of the best times to do that is when they have one of these catastrophic kind of things like a heart attack. So, you want to take a look at that and find out what it is. But when you're doing something that has never been done before, it's not universally accepted, to say the least. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. ERIN MARTIN, PRIMARY CARE: As a primary care physician, we are supposed to be the people that are making sure the patients don't get sick and they have everything they need to maintain health. There is no reason that exact approach can't be applied across the board to drugs, to other diagnostic tests. Six years ago before I became CEO, I stopped to think, I've never looked after a healthy person and maybe it would be easier to take care of people and keep them from getting sick before they actually did get sick. Log in to your account. Next, click the three-dot menu icon underneath the title of the video. Sometimes I go to the hospital and that's the only health care I ever got. MARSHALL: It doesn't matter if I do one stent or five or ten stents. Sometimes they are related to lifestyle habits. Yes, this is Dr. Martin over at La Clinica. They said, absolutely, it's been demonstrated that acupuncture is safe and effective, especially with post-operative and injury pain. And it wasn't because procedures were more expensive in Miami than in Minneapolis. In fact, more soldiers died last year from non-combat injuries than during war. Where does that money come from? The Issues. Because what we think is best for us often isn't. I'm optimistic about the future. Alexander/Transcript. GUPTA: I mean, both physically and mentally. We are second to none in this country for those things. In the dialog that appears, select the language of the file you're uploading. You've done some sweating. (MUSIC & CREDITS) GUPTA: We can't leave the conversation right there. It takes a village to make an unhealthy patient healthy. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was issued the bottle today with 20 in it and 10 are missing. And finally, keep in mind that what is charged and what is ultimately paid are two different numbers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He really did. But, one of the arguments seems to be, you add more people to the system, you get a lot more people insured. People go in and out of health plans. I mean, that sounds like a really dire situation. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. How to make a healthy choices. Now, thanks to both of you for joining us. She had had bypass surgery at an early age. I had no knowledge of ways to prevent heart attack or stroke or cancer or things like that. We don't know what they are. The costs are going through the roof and the ability to help these service members and their families recover and repair and come back to a functional life is getting less and less. I ultimately had a crisis of conscience, because I was not at all proud of what I was doing. And from that point on I realized that I don't want to be on this. Transcripts Dragons: The Nine Realms Fire Escape Script view. 2. My very best friend from war, he was on narcotics. And so, one of the good news, the exciting news is, is that there's a lot of energy now to turn that around. Did you go to the diabetes education? We have a disease management system. Adding Avandia can help. It's just so much more than money. JONAS: What it first seems like strange bedfellows, healing oriented mind/body practices and sort of the hardcore military actually is an opportunity that they jumped at because of the pragmatic need and nature that the wars had driven them to respond to. When a team from Dartmouth Medical School mapped Medicare payments, it found some disconcerting differences from one part of the country to another. NIEMTZOW: Because of that? Going back home. (LAUGHTER) That's the way I like to look at it. The folks who were there were not trying to shirk their responsibilities. GUPTA: For everybody here. MARTIN: Are you taking your medication? WEIL: This is a problem with a lot of our suppressive treatments. I was on Trizadon. I have an insurance now perhaps. Escape Fire Clip 14,141 views Oct 14, 2014 55 Dislike Share IHI Open School 9.49K subscribers *Note: You can purchase the full-length Escape Fire documentary on iTunes and Cinema Now, or you. It will require a huge effort. Let me just take a listen to you. We're the only providers for. And those are surprising. She got her cholesterol under control, her weight under control and things were great for her after that. Entitled Escape Fire, Dr. Berwick's speech took its audience back to the year 1949, when a wildfire broke out on a Montana hillside, taking the lives of 13 young men and changing the way firefighting was managed in the United States. It sounded like it was like something that has the greatest impact your! Of procedures to people that they do n't have access to the rising number soldier... Mel LEFER, PETALUMA, CALIFORNIA: 25 years ago I had to realized that I never. Crosstalk ) ( COMMERCIAL BREAK ) unidentified FEMALE: he was on.! 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